C.A.R.P.S.

[Daniel Lockheart]

Daniel smiles at the energy and passion which Zen seems to have for all this.
"It has been a long time since people seemed to be this alive and excited around here about things. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done for Willy, but at least you have passion and that's something."


Upon hearing Jack's words, Daniel lifts his mug. "Hear Hear!" He cries.

[Zen Zecharion]

*zen facepalms at jacks statement, muttering something under his breath about humans jumping to conclusions*

agreed, your the magistrate, kymberlin is not, which was the point i was making. as far as questioning the heads of houses and such, yes, i do question them if they would have this man unjustly imprisoned. i dont care if i had to question the king himself, i would rather a let a thousand guilty men go free than one innocent man be locked up.

*zen holds his ground*

[Rooks Reayvalynn]

*Rooks is snickering his ass off in the rafters... and is almost completly coporeal.*

"Heehehehehe... he reminds me of another elf... she was silly too."

[Daniel Lockheart]

i dont care if i had to question the king himself

The mirth drains from the officer's face upon hearing those words. "Goodman, I assure you if the King declared this man a criminal there would be not to question his word save the Knight of the highest standing of which I know you are not."

[Edrick Stormbane]

* Edrick Speaks up from the back*

Zen, I'm trying to understand your reasoning. What makes you believe this man is innocent?

I understand you think the punishment is harsh and you disagree with it, but how is Willy innocent? He sold vials of water under false pretense that they where usefull potions. I was there when he sold them and I asked for his paper work. He defrauded the people of this town and of Silverthorn. He basicly stole from this town. He damaged the reputation of the alchmist guild. He hurt all merchants. And he could have invadventaly killed a member of this town with his water potions.

It is a privledge to sell goods and service in Kingdom of Silverthorn and Willy abused that privledge and in the end hurt the good people of Silverthorn.

Please explain how you see this man as innocent?

I pesonaly find the magistrates ruling just and fair. It is sending a message that thiefs will not be tolerated in this town.

[Zen Zecharion]

heres my reasoning.

this man is charged with theft,

theft involves somone taking something that does not belong to them or something they have not paid for.

this man sold, emphasis on sold, potions for money. money was exchanged for his goods.

ipso facto he stole nothing.

he is most definitely guilty of unethical business practices and should have his writ revoked and refunds given. but he didnt steal anything, ya'll paid for it

[Edrick Stormbane]

Ahh, you are talking about the grey area of law.

I see it as, I paided for a certian item, aka a certian type of potion. The merchant sales said item to me. If he has not, he has taken money from me for something I was not willing to pay for. To me, this is no different than a pick pocket stealing my coin purse.
Both have the same end result. I'm missing my money and have nothing to show for it.

So to me, Willy was stealing from the people of this fine town and breaking Silverthorn Laws

[dier_cire]

Zen, you seem to have forgotten where you are. This is Silverthorn's lands and he and his delegates can rule as they see fit. Trying to change that is like spitting on a fire elemental. You'll only get burned.

The magistrate deals out justice as he sees fit. If he calls it a duck, it's a duck. Jakoric will bring evidence as they choose to prove or counter this, and Mandalor, well, they are here only as it involves evidence that is their specialty. As a member of none of these, arguing with any of them will get you no where.

Questioning the word of the king of these lands is also probably unwise, not that you did this. Remember, there's a difference between knowing you are better than those around you and acting on it. Sometimes you need to let children hurt themselves in order to learn to not do that again.

[Zen Zecharion]

its one this for the children to hurt themselves, but when they hurt others, especially when the only reason their hurting the other person is because they got the better of them, then that needs to be stopped. and i dont particularly care who gets upset about what im saying. its the truth and if anyone thinks its not then their more than a tyrant.

and as far as the grey areas of the law go, better to leave a potentially guilty man go free than a potentially innocent man be thrown in jail.

[halfelfman]

Hmm zen you are an interesting person. I agree on you should be looking into joining Jakoric since you from what I can tell love to debate.

Zen i am suprised your not asking if he was the one that made the potions. Also if you want to get technical your correct he didn't sell potions he sold beverages and called them potions.

But any whooo.

(Walks over to willies things to acquire his writ and tax ledger once acquired goes back to his table in the back and sits down reading over it.)

[Kimberlyn Darksbane]

*Looks at Zen*

Oh I know I'm not a magistrate I was offering to help a member of my House since technically I was one of the ones who was ripped off for Aroura purchased a raise dead potion from this man for me.

*Looks a Jack*

I'll be back in a few to see if I can find that Jakoric member for you.

*To Eld*

Make certain that one understand the Kingdom and laws a little better. Would hate for him to get as ummm..passionate when the matter of affairs switches from Jack's arena to mine for when it comes to my side of DeVris I'm not nearly as understanding.

*Teleports*

[Daniel Lockheart]

Daniel gets out a great big blue book labeled 1009 PEW random codes & notes and reads for a few minutes.

"Well I suppose it could be considered theft by false pretenses which is basically: Any person who, with intent to defraud or cheat makes or uses false pretense to obtain from a person any money or personal property or use of any instrument, facility, article, or other valuable thing or service."

Daniel pushes up his glasses, closes his book and repackes it. "Then again, I'm no DeVriss, I'm just the local book worm. I sort of felt Jack was being nice. From what I hear the guy's lucky he wasn't caught and executed or dismembered as in most places here is the norm. I'm really surprised he's not even going to brand him so others know him in the future as a cheat."

[Zen Zecharion]

after kymberlin tp's*

"and thats exactly what im talking about, the mage hunter thinks that just because im a mage i should fear and cower before her, which i assure you is NOT going to happen, reguardless of the circumstances"

to daniel

"which is what iv been saying all along, he's not a thief, hes a cheat, there a HUGE difference, a thief doesnt deal with people, just takes what he can and runs in a most uncaring and calous manner. a cheat is more subtle, but he has to deal with people and so he works in a way that the person he is cheating does all the actual work. but a cheat is not as ruthless as a theif, and the action of cheating is significantly less ruthless than the art of theft. therefor the punishment should fit the crime, of which you *looking at jack* have charged the wrong one.

[Darthesis]

Most kingdoms I ever travel to tend to keep things simple, and in my mind, what was done here is theft.

You paid money for the promise of a potion. You instead got water.

Is this any different than him giving you a real potion then doing some pick pocketing and replacing this potion with a vial containing water? Would this then be theft? Is this any more or less 'ruthless'? Is smiling while you do an evil deed make it better? Maybe laughing?

That's semantics, and I hate semantics. I would think he performed an unlawful act that he well knew could result in the death of someone. In my mind, that's a fairly serious crime and the possible result is where the punishment should be determined. Where I was a boy that was most certainly punishable by death.

But I am NOT the law in Silverthorne, so good luck to those who uphold it and try to fight against it.

[pirateking89]

Cudar stands up and attempts to make himself heard above the argument.
"Zen, you say he is innocent of theft and, technically, this is in fact the case. Jack, I ask you to change the name of the crime to fraudulent behavior so that we are able to continue with the trial and Zen is satisfied. You cannot argue that what Willy did was commit fraud."